In a recent conversation on "The Business Philosopher Within You," Bhavesh Naik sat down with Jonathan Schneider, the CEO and Co-Founder of Moderne, to explore the journey of building a company that stands at the intersection of artificial intelligence and human insight. Jonathan shares his experiences from working at Netflix to founding Moderne, a platform focused on automating code modernization and refactoring across massive codebases. This article offers a glimpse into their discussion, revealing the challenges, philosophies, and practical realities that shape a business designed to thrive in a rapidly evolving technological landscape.
The Origin of Moderne: A Name and a Mission
Jonathan opens by explaining the thoughtful choice behind the name "Moderne." It’s a nod to both modernization and a specific art deco movement from his hometown, blending personal history with the company’s mission. This dual meaning sets the tone for the company’s purpose—modernizing legacy systems while respecting the layers of history embedded within codebases.
The inspiration to start Moderne wasn’t a sudden spark but something that evolved over time, shaped by Jonathan’s work at Netflix. He describes how his role on Netflix’s engineering tools team exposed him to the challenges of moving large organizations forward without imposing hard deadlines or constraints on product teams. This culture, famously known as “freedom and responsibility,” meant that central teams had to find creative ways to influence progress without direct control.
This environment gave birth to the idea of automating modernization efforts. Instead of relying on product teams to update their codebases manually, Jonathan and his team explored ways to automate these changes, a concept that eventually shaped Moderne’s platform.
Freedom and Responsibility: The Netflix Culture That Shaped a Solution
Jonathan elaborates on Netflix’s culture of freedom and responsibility. The company hired highly skilled individuals and trusted them to make decisions without micromanagement. This approach meant fewer but more senior engineers who could execute independently.
However, this culture also meant central teams couldn’t enforce strict policies or deadlines on product engineers. Jonathan recalls how his team at Netflix created dashboards and metrics to provide context but found that without direct enforcement, these tools had limited impact. The solution was to find a way to automate the modernization process so product teams could move forward without needing to be pulled in multiple directions.
The Challenge of Code Modernization and Refactoring
Jonathan discusses the concept of modernization in software development, which goes beyond simply migrating legacy languages like COBOL or Fortran to newer platforms. The real challenge lies in maintaining and evolving modern languages like Java, JavaScript, or C# in a world where software production is industrialized and heavily componentized.
He paints a picture of today’s software landscape as one built on many moving parts—open source components, third-party libraries, and rapidly evolving APIs. While this approach speeds up development, it creates a maintenance burden because these components change constantly. Developers have to keep up, or the entire system risks breaking down.
This ongoing maintenance is what Jonathan refers to as “technical debt,” a term that has taken on broader meaning. Originally, it described shortcuts taken by engineers that needed to be fixed later. Now, it also includes the cost of keeping up with changes in the components software relies on. This creates a constant negotiation between engineering teams wanting to fix the foundation and business teams pushing for new features.
How Moderne Uses AI to Address Technical Debt
Moderne’s platform is designed to tackle this problem by automating code refactoring at scale. Jonathan explains that their system uses what they call a “lossless semantic tree,” a data model that captures everything a compiler knows about the code, including syntax, dependencies, and formatting.
Using this rich understanding of code, the platform runs “recipes” that transform codebases safely and predictably across hundreds or thousands of repositories. This approach means that when a component changes, the fix doesn’t have to be applied manually to every application. Instead, a single automated program can update all affected code, keeping the cost of modernization constant instead of growing with the number of applications.
Jonathan also touches on the role of AI in this process. While he’s cautious about letting AI mutate code directly due to risks of hallucination, AI proves useful in accelerating the creation of these transformation recipes. By analyzing release notes and documentation, AI can help generate programs that keep codebases up to date more quickly.
Understanding the Client and Their Challenges
The conversation shifts to who benefits most from Moderne’s platform. Jonathan identifies two key groups: individual developers responsible for maintaining hundreds or thousands of repositories, and business leaders like VPs or CTOs who recognize the cost of technical debt but struggle to address it efficiently.
He shares an example of a company where 70 engineers managed 40 repositories in the past, but now the same team handles over 2,000 repositories. This explosion in codebases reflects the industrialization of software development, where component reuse is common but creates a growing maintenance burden.
The economic buyers often see technical debt as a problem but lack effective tools to solve it. Their only option is to hire more consultants or engineers to manually fix code, which is costly and slow. Moderne offers a way to automate this work, reducing the burden on teams and accelerating modernization.
Breaking Down the Sales and Onboarding Process
Jonathan describes how the sales process starts with identifying the most pressing modernization challenges within a company. Economic buyers often have a list of things they want to change about their tech stack, but feel overwhelmed by the scale of the work. Moderne’s approach is to offer a “set course menu” of initial, manageable projects to help teams get comfortable with multi-repository commits and automated changes.
Onboarding involves working closely with clients to understand their unique environment and priorities. Jonathan likens this to taking a car to the mechanic: you start with simple maintenance like changing the oil filter, then move on to more complex repairs as needed. This step-by-step approach builds trust and helps clients see tangible progress.
In crisis situations, Moderne pairs its platform with professional services to quickly diagnose and fix urgent issues. This combination ensures clients can handle immediate pain points while developing internal capabilities for ongoing modernization.
The Evolution and Vision Behind Moderne
Jonathan reflects on how Moderne started not with a grand vision but by responding to a persistent problem encountered repeatedly in large enterprises. Meeting clients like JPMorgan, Fidelity, and Home Depot revealed a universal challenge: moving large codebases forward was difficult and costly.
This realization shaped their enterprise-focused strategy and influenced the kind of talent they sought—experienced engineers familiar with enterprise environments and security requirements. While they began with large clients, their product design allows them to serve smaller companies as well.
Looking ahead, Jonathan sees the core data model about code as a valuable asset that can support many applications beyond refactoring. Future modules could include cloud cost optimization, impact analysis, and dead code elimination. This modular approach offers flexibility and growth potential, positioning Moderne as a long-term player in software infrastructure.
Building Culture and Leadership in a Growing Company
Jonathan shares insights on building a company culture that values humility and fierce resolve. Inspired by a Harvard Business Review article, Moderne strives to meet customers where they are and persistently find ways to make their product work. They avoid creating a formal culture deck early on, preferring to observe actual behaviors and values that emerge over time.
He also discusses the importance of self-awareness in leadership, acknowledging personal challenges such as the tendency to give too much. Having co-founders and team members who provide honest feedback helps maintain balance. This openness and reflection contribute to a healthy leadership dynamic.
Overcoming Challenges and Personal Growth
Jonathan admits that leadership often involves being in “dark moments” where problems seem overwhelming. Celebrating small wins becomes crucial to maintain perspective. Despite the hard work and compromises, seeing the company grow from nothing to a team of 30 and beyond offers a sense of accomplishment.
He contrasts who he was early in his career with who he is now, noting the added responsibility and the need to make decisions with authority. This evolution reflects the broader journey of entrepreneurship—constant learning, adapting, and balancing personal nature with the demands of leadership.
The One Constant in an Ever-Changing Journey
When asked what one thing he would advise entrepreneurs to hold on to, Jonathan speaks about the compelling drive to create something new despite all obstacles. He references a phrase he saw on a billboard in Miami: “Give me the strength to change the things I cannot accept.” This determination to push forward, even when the world’s inertia seems to resist, is what sustains entrepreneurs through difficult times.
Connecting with Jonathan and Continuing the Conversation
For those interested in reaching out, Jonathan encourages connecting on social channels like LinkedIn or Twitter, or through Moderne’s website. He welcomes conversations and is open to sharing insights beyond the podcast.
Reflecting on his experience as a guest, Jonathan appreciates the balance between personal and business topics in the conversation. He notes that understanding both the person and their work provides a fuller picture and more meaningful insights.
Why This Conversation Matters
This discussion between Bhavesh Naik and Jonathan Schneider offers a rare look at the intersection of technology, business, and leadership in a complex and evolving field. It’s not a simple story of a startup’s rise but an honest exploration of the challenges that come with building tools to keep modern software running smoothly.
By weaving together ideas about culture, technology debt, AI’s role, and the human side of entrepreneurship, the conversation invites listeners and readers to consider what it really takes to build a future-proof business today. It’s a reminder that behind every platform and product are people wrestling with real problems and striving to make a difference.
If you’re interested in the realities of software modernization, the nuances of leadership, or the practical use of AI in business, this conversation is worth your time. Jonathan’s story is still unfolding, and the ideas shared here offer both inspiration and a grounded perspective on what it means to build something meaningful in the tech world.
How to Connect and Learn More
If you feel inspired to connect with Jonathan, you can visit modren.ai or find him on LinkedIn. Engaging with business leaders like Jonathan can provide valuable perspectives and tools to deepen your own leadership journey.
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This article was created from the video Building a Future-Proof Business with AI and Human Insight with the help of AI. Watch on YouTube below.
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